PREDESTINATION AND ELECTION ....
AND/OR FREE WILL
AND/OR FREE WILL
I have a 19-year old female friend (the youngest daughter of some dear friends of mine) living in India right now. She is working with a couple who is raising the 70+ daughters of Hindu temple prostitutes in their town. I received an email from this young woman the other day asking me the following question:
Do you believe in Calvin's theory of predestination? It was presented to me here by one of the pastors and I have NO WAY of proving it wrong, but it seems SO wrong to me! If you have time and interest give me your thoughts.
Do you believe in Calvin's theory of predestination? It was presented to me here by one of the pastors and I have NO WAY of proving it wrong, but it seems SO wrong to me! If you have time and interest give me your thoughts.
Here is what I wrote back to my young friend ...
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Hello friend. Calvin's doctrine of predestination, and it's twin and necessary sister, the doctrine of election, have so many varieties to it, that to ask a pastor, a theologian, a religion professor, or a Sunday School teacher to describe them would be like asking these different people to describe the best flavor in the world, or the sound of rain, or to paint a picture of what they think Jesus looked like. A whole slew of answers would come. And the funny thing is that Calvin would probably argue with all of them. And he certainly didn't believe these doctrines were theories ... for him they were iron-clad doctrines that he was willing to stake his life on.
Calvin? Wesley? Augustine? Luther? Smart guys to be sure. Lovers of Jesus to be sure. But don't let their "convincement" feel like a noose around your faith-neck. Let Jesus and God's Word teach you, and lead you into all truth. Am I saying we don't need to let God use "teachers" in our lives, and that we don't need to adopt a Credo, or a Statement of Faith that makes sense to us, but that we can grow with? Of course not.
In fact, the book of PROVERBS says over an over again that the definition of a fool is "one who rejects instruction." But learn from people you know and trust, in whom you see the character and the nature of God alive and growing. And don't let people lure you into theological swamps just to prove something to you about themselves and their beliefs, or to get you to trust them and their cleverness.
read.think.pray.live.
Gregg
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Hello friend. Calvin's doctrine of predestination, and it's twin and necessary sister, the doctrine of election, have so many varieties to it, that to ask a pastor, a theologian, a religion professor, or a Sunday School teacher to describe them would be like asking these different people to describe the best flavor in the world, or the sound of rain, or to paint a picture of what they think Jesus looked like. A whole slew of answers would come. And the funny thing is that Calvin would probably argue with all of them. And he certainly didn't believe these doctrines were theories ... for him they were iron-clad doctrines that he was willing to stake his life on.
This is a theological question that followers of Jesus Christ have talked about, argued over, been divided over, and even hated one another over for centuries. And the reason why? Because both emphases are found in God's Word.
THE DOCTRINE OF FREE WILL | God has given us a free will and that we either respond to His invitation to come into a relationship with Him or we don't (most Quakers, Methodists, many Pentecostals, and Nazarenes find their beliefs lingering on this side of the theological fence).
THE DOCTRINES OF PREDESTINATION AND ELECTION | God is sovereign and chooses some people ahead of time to be in relationship with Him, and chooses others to not be in relationship with Him (most Baptists, Presbyterians, Evangelical Free, and independent Bible Churches find their beliefs lingering on this side of the theological fence).
THE DOCTRINES OF PREDESTINATION AND ELECTION | God is sovereign and chooses some people ahead of time to be in relationship with Him, and chooses others to not be in relationship with Him (most Baptists, Presbyterians, Evangelical Free, and independent Bible Churches find their beliefs lingering on this side of the theological fence).
God's Word has plenty of verses that seem to speak to both sides of this theological coin that this pastor has asked you to spin (for his pleasure?). GOOGLE "free will, predestination, and election" and you'll find a curiously solid slew of Biblical answers for both. But here's the deal my friend. Why can't both be true? This is one of the things I love about Quakers. We're not afraid of paradox. We don't believe that being silenced and dumbfounded by the awesomeness and the "otherness" of God shows a lack of conviction, a lack of theological expertise, or a lack of convincement.
It's not the easy way out to sit on the fence on these two seemingly oppositional doctrines. In fact it's the height of humility, to admit that God is God and we're not. And that while we see the two sides of this theological coin spoken of throughout Scripture (in the law, in the history, in the wisdom, in the prophets, in the minor prophets, in the Gospels, and in the Epistles), we don't have to have a certainty about one being right and one being wrong in order to feel confident about our theology.
Letting both sides of this God-coin be true is just more evidence to me that there are things about God that human beings will never be able to understand in ways that solve all the doctrinal riddles that people as smart as Calvin and Wesley are able to dig out of God's Word.
Letting both sides of this God-coin be true is just more evidence to me that there are things about God that human beings will never be able to understand in ways that solve all the doctrinal riddles that people as smart as Calvin and Wesley are able to dig out of God's Word.
But when seeking what I believe about this and other theological conundrums, a couple of the questions I always ask myself are ...
- To believe this proposed doctrine before me, do I need to "unbelieve" anything I believe about the character or the nature of God, Jesus Christ, or God's Holy Spirit?
- To believe this proposed doctrine before me, do I need to be talked into it by somebody who is acting smarter and wiser than me for the purpose of getting me to come over to their side of the argument?
Calvin? Wesley? Augustine? Luther? Smart guys to be sure. Lovers of Jesus to be sure. But don't let their "convincement" feel like a noose around your faith-neck. Let Jesus and God's Word teach you, and lead you into all truth. Am I saying we don't need to let God use "teachers" in our lives, and that we don't need to adopt a Credo, or a Statement of Faith that makes sense to us, but that we can grow with? Of course not.
In fact, the book of PROVERBS says over an over again that the definition of a fool is "one who rejects instruction." But learn from people you know and trust, in whom you see the character and the nature of God alive and growing. And don't let people lure you into theological swamps just to prove something to you about themselves and their beliefs, or to get you to trust them and their cleverness.
The Apostle Paul uses the word "predestination" in his writings. My favorite time is when he says in ROMANS 8:29 that "those God foreknew He predestined to be conformed into the family-likeness of His Son, Jesus Christ." And the reason I'm drawn to this verse about predestination among all the others, is because here God's "predestination" is linked to God's "foreknowledge."
In other words, God doesn't make us choose Him or reject Him. But because God is beyond the "chronos" time that you and I as human beings are so easily trapped in (the passing of time that's measured by the ticking of the hands on a clock), and because God is fully engaged in "kronos" time, or "God-time", He sees the beginning, the middle, and the end of all human history as happening at the exact same moment. And so while God sees the decisions you and I will make, He doesn't make us make the choices we have made, are making, and will make. In other words ...
In other words, God doesn't make us choose Him or reject Him. But because God is beyond the "chronos" time that you and I as human beings are so easily trapped in (the passing of time that's measured by the ticking of the hands on a clock), and because God is fully engaged in "kronos" time, or "God-time", He sees the beginning, the middle, and the end of all human history as happening at the exact same moment. And so while God sees the decisions you and I will make, He doesn't make us make the choices we have made, are making, and will make. In other words ...
- The invitation to come into the Kingdom of God is mailed to everyone who ever lived (JOHN 3:16).
- But not everybody who opens the invitation up and reads it will make the choice to come to the party.
If my words have become somewhat rambling, I am sorry. I'm tired. But know that I love you. And know that I'm glad that you are where you are, and that you're doing what Jesus has asked you to do. The center of God's will is the hot spot on the dance floor at the party. Dance on my little sister. Dance on. Good night and Godspeed.
Gregg